I Thot You Was a Toad

I don't really know where you're going with this. Trying to debate (moreover you seem pissed?) in a yaoi website is pretty much useless.
As wtf said, of course it isn't listed in the DSM, well... because it's not a disorder, it's a subtype of traumatic bonding.

Nope. It's about setting the record straight. Too many readers of yaoi claim "Stockholm Syndrome" for the romantic trope of ukes falling for abusive semes, as though the traumatic bonding that you describe (less actual bonding so much as calculated risk assessment and management tactics under the covert guise of friendship and intimacy) is the same thing.

Also, it wasn't listed in the DSM because Berjerot's thesis has been largely invalidated in subsequent studies. For one thing, he didn't bother to interview the subjects of his investigation, in particular the survivors of the Normalmstorg event and Kristen Enmark. When they finally told their side of the story, it was very clear that their actions were driven by very different motivations, fears of incompetence and endangerment by the police, not romantic feelings at all. Their emotional states and somatic responses more closely align to PTSD.

Also, not pissed, but definitely experiencing an urgency to stop the correlation of romantic tropes too closely to a syndrome which has been used to pathologize behaviour of survivors of violence, one which makes them appear crazy for, either, reacting to immediate or recent trauma, or "playing for an end game" with their best chances at survival with the best information, experience and resources they have at their disposal. The fact that yaoi is fiction matters.

I feel the same way. In the school where I work, there have been rare incidents of child abuse. Children protect their parents because they don't know anything else, and they believe they would literally die if they don't. The abuser is better than what a child imagines as the alternative, but children are shattered in the process.

Most school systems have intervention procedures in place with trained professional to deal with suspected cases of abuse and neglect in such a way that children are not traumatized further. If it is necessary to remove children, they will do so.

I'm trying to parse your last sentence since you surely don't believe that children should remain in harm's way (which is what it almost sounds like you've written.) Do you mean that they protect their abusers because they can't imagine anything better, and that this experience tears them apart? (I'm assuming that's what you mean.)

I don't really get what you're saying 'nope' to, since you didn't contradict me; don't create a straw man please.
I agree w/ you; so many pseudo psychologists tried to make a thesis about Stockholm syndrome (among many others subjects), without verifying the facts beforehand, because they knew the hype would bring them readers. I already acknowledged it isn't a disorder. But inappropriate generalization wont change the fact that there are real-life occurrences:
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4493 (both Brian Andrew Dunning and Dr. Steven Novella are skeptics than I learned to trust through the years)
And of course it can lead to PTSD in extreme cases.

Regarding the yaois readers... well I do hope most of us know how to separate fiction from reality.

I was noping the "you sound pissed?" question.

In terms of your final remark about hoping that most yaoi readers know how to separate fiction from reality, the only reason I brought it up in the first place is to address that problem. There must've been a run of manga with abusive lover themed stories, because there has certainly been a run of comments from readers who---while they do not necessarily confuse all yaoi with real life---are certainly confused about Stockholm Syndrome and have certainly correlated the yaoi misrepresentations with real life occurrences.
It is exactly this misrepresentation which readers are taking away, time and again: "This really happens", "We learned about this in school", "This is real" ... I mean, for goodness sake! Sure, I have a tendency, when frustrated, to cry out, "Stop it!" Hence, the absolutisms in my initial comment.

Now, you agree that the syndrome is not a disorder, but that is certainly how it is represented in yaoi (as manifesting outright bipolar or schizophrenic). As your author pointed out, it is also not a valid medical subject, and, although I like Skeptoid magazine and read up on evolutionary psychology, that particular angle is inadequate. This, especially since the author seems to feel it sufficiently handles the issue of the syndrome's lack of inclusion in the DSM. I defer to peer-reviewed publications with a broader approach to mental health and society, also available online [Wade, et al; some 90 other publications], because of Berjerot's incomplete research and the way his evidence is distorted to embed systemic misogyny. I defer to them because the consequences of this distortion, in terms of continued harm to people who have already been badly hurt, are very difficult to unstitch and heal. The entire comment thread was to intended to spark some conversation about a much more complex set of behaviours than yaoi tends to present.

There's nothing I could disagree with in you answer, and I haven't read enough yaoi to know about the PTSDs described. Thanks for clarifying my misunderstanding of your previous post, and for your sources.

*clearing

I meant that children lie for their abusive family members because they are too scared to think of life without them.

Personally, I know some people who find it a big hassle to create an account, they're not too deep into manga but they sometimes comment. That's totally fine. I myself sometimes post in anon state when at work, since it's like 30 mins and leaving too much bother to sign in.
Thing some people don't want to create an account for various reasons.
This site needs to IPban some trolls and we will be free (hopefully)- or activate a feature where a topic/comment with more than -10 will get deleted automatically.

There was a down-vote feature. It didn't delete, but it covered the comment. That got rigged.

I know there are reasons why people want to stay anon. Good reasons. Reasons they don't need to justify to anyone. Even just because they want to.

All I'm saying is, posting as an anon means you get lumped in with every asshole who wants to stay anon because they're assholes.

you're right. I stopped posting as an anon because of this, I hope others will consider the state of the site and create an account.

Words of wisdom here, my friend. Anon/Anonymous posters complain when they get sass back at them, but they do not necessarily need to make an account, my friend Nonni (yeah, that's really here name) does not have an account, but always comments using that name, and is thus recognized.
Having an account when you request recommendations is useful as people can check your reading list to see what you enjoyed in the past, and it helps for notifications and such, but there are some longtime Finder posters (like Reality Bites) that do not log in either but she is still recognizable.
Anon posters need to be aware that they get lumped with the trolls and haters though.

I recognize Nonni. I've conversed with her as anony-Nonni (which, with a hey and a ho, sounds Shakespearean.) I've also read comments by Reality Bytes.

This isn't about suppressing anonymity, agitating to have IP addresses posted, or singling people out. There are some readers who come to this site who would be crucified if hostile members of their family, colleagues, neighbours or local secret police ever figured out they were posting here. I don't want to deprive them of anonymity or the freedom to comment anonymously. But if they do, and people with borderline antisocial personality disorders also happen to be trolling anonymously on the thread around the same time, then that's who they are. Even if it isn't.

The anon option is supposed to be for people with anxiety. Not mask for bullies to hide behind.

Agreed, I find it difficult to trust anons, god knows who they are. Of course there are some longtime anons who are recognizable but they can be imitated too.

The anon option is for whatever anyone wants it to be. For some, it's a matter of simple freedom. For some it's life and death. For some, it's because they can't be arsed to sign in. There doesn't have to be a reason.

One funny example I had pointed out to me was where an anon adopted a "voice of reason" as one identity, and then, a whole Greek Chorus of anonymous assholes as others. They must've gotten tired after awhile because they slipped up and it became obvious that they were—all of them—the same person. And the big argument 'they' were defending was that 'they' should be judged on the meaning of 'their' words, not on 'their' identity. Why, then? If you (universal you, not personal you) have a reasonable and rational argument, why not just state it and leave it to be judged for what it really is, instead of trying to manufacture a nonexistent consensus of opinion? If the argument has merit, then it doesn't need agreement. It can just stand on the validity of its premises. Instead, this particular troll undermined his whole thesis by letting his multiple masks slip. Anyway, that's just an example.

I tend to look at the culture of trolling when it appears, especially on site like this where we have people from so many different countries and where the subject matter is fraught with actual danger for some people's safety and livelihood. It is a tool for suppressing dissent. It is used to send a chilling effect on discourse and protest. It is about imposing authoritarian values. When you have trolls on a site making life difficult for individuals or just in general, then people start discussing how to impose identity from outside the site, by revealing IPs, for example. That kills off the chance for participation for people who can't access TOR, etc.. That's why I think it's important to establish a personal body of discussions, arguments, even outright flame wars if one must, as a brand.

What happened to my response to you? It keeps popping up and then disappearing?

Sorry, I had you under "vicious man-eating brute" behind the same bars as KyoNaZa. Back, you monster! Back. *cracks whip*

Not sure. maybe it is getting deleted? This is the first response I have seen, but I have been away from the computer for a while ...

*nods* It has certainly happened before. On this site, it even happens to the trolls.

Ah, Polito , here is some snax and a drink ... (please leave clothes on, it is chilly today)

Weird. Okay ... nope, there it is again. Above Eldritchangel's comment.

Now I see it ...

That's not the safe word!

Ah, maybe it's not so chilly where you are, but yesterday it was 30C here, today it's 14C ... if you want to run around nekkid in the cold rainy and windy weather, I gots my camera

How did the existence of trolls take over the internet? And why are they using it as if it's a toy to manipulate?

Because some people are under the impression that you can get away with it. Also anonimity gives them a freedom without exposing their real identity. Trolls are generally insecure and socially awkward individuals in real life and trolling on internet gives them some sort of satisfaction, since they can't express their opinions so freely in real life.

EXACTLY. I had the same sentiment.

yeah. i remember that anon thread ranting about those and i hate being angry but i just exploded that time after weeks of silently enduring the troll invasion of the main boards.

in my honest opinion it's not really THAT hard to create an account. the choice is really theirs and they do not have to give information on their page if they wanted to. heck, i see a lot of watchers/followers who only sign in for the manga and list subscription. as long as they jump out of that anon pool and give themselves an identity. a named anon but at least that makes them an individual.

...anyway: users who uses bots? that made me curious.

Wacky weather in Canada - coldest day was -81C to 45C (that's -114F to 113F) I have only ever experienced -40C to 36C though. Got frostbite a few times, not nice.

Yeah, mostly. Mostly a few brats, a couple of frat house-style idiots. I've been warned about some who are more sinister. Actually, we all have. VPNs or Tor are highly recommended unless you share a computer network with thousands.

I've seen one who showed definite signs of a borderline personality disorder with psychotic moments, possibly schizophrenia. Narcissism. And I've noticed a couple of people who show signs of PTSDs, whose sense of self has been wiped out by violence and tragedy, but for the most part, these ones leave people alone unless they feel threatened. One of these people freely admitted to her PTSDs in one of those sharing threads ... which made me worry about her safety. I got that she's a strong person, but that's a helluva lot of information to put out into the ether about your mental stablity. Again, people really need to watch what they share.

Give a person enough rope ... it's weird how it happens, but sock puppets usually out themselves, whether they have an account or not. That's just another reason why, if you have something to say, put a name and face to it. Because there's no reason not to.

It's true that a person who is signed in can just as easily manipulate sock puppet troll accounts and anon troll comments as any anon, but there are that many more steps involved and it serves as a sober second thought. Identity is more than an account.

Botssssssss..... obviously, the spam-bots that show up from time to time. And now we have them to thank for Captcha.

One person floated the idea past me of bots rigging the up-votes, especially for people who achieve greater numbers of approval ratings on their manga reviews than actual people who appear to have read the manga (or rated it, at least.) That may be a bit of a stretch, but it sure involves a lot of sock puppets. I think it's kind of hilarious. Can you imagine having to sign out and in that many times?

Well, *ahem* *blushes*, I do get triggered a lot, and I'm not shy about letting it out. I react, emotionally ... but, also, rationally. That's another reason why there is no point to trying to pretend to be an anon. Whatever for? Who wants everybody to agree with them all the time? So what if some people are offended? People can't even agree on what kind of manga is fluffy. (Apparently. I mean, some folks think Finder is cute. Wut?) So set your thoughts apart from the bottom-feeders and cultivate an identity. Unless you actually ARE a bottom-feeder, in which case, thank you for making that so clear by staying anon.

*shifty eyes*

Oop, the last part of that comment was directed to universal you, not personal you.

Refer to the obscene spam mails incidents from various accounts & lot of downvotes on the topic telling how to delete trolling / threatening / insulting topics..
Those various kinds of troll have already created many a/c.

And it's worse that they create a/c just to troll.

I couldn't agree more. Ever since the introduction of social media to our lives, everyone became so willing to share sensitive information online. Sometimes I see others share very private things in here, it's not really safe to share them in here.

I also agree with you about VPN but one must be careful about which VPN service they choose. Some of them are willing to share personal info with 3rd parties and some others have serious security loopholes.

And some are simply fronts for different security agencies, which may or may not be a good thing depending on in whose security they are invested.

I'm of two minds about what people should share, especially related to mental health. On the one hand, that sort of information can lead to missed job opportunities, being turned down for educational grants and bursaries, being declined for things which require responsible behaviour like volunteerism or working with children. It can set up misconceptions about capabilities in people's minds that can impede relationships, lead to problems securing loans, establishing credit or renting apartments and other problems. And it can stay on the web for a very long time.

Yet if people aren't frank about who they are, what they've experienced, how they've grown and changed, what they've learned, how can we learn from them? How do we learn to see past the wound to the person, with all their good intentions, hopes and contributions?

ヾ(☆▽☆) How are you doing?

***

Oh great. Lots of pics of plucked chicken.

Well, chicken flesh anyway O.O, although it is warmer today, not so many goosebumps. Want me to send you the photos? (Here is a sexy reclining pose ... ) http://www.mangago.me/home/photo/1704525/

Ah, the ancient art of chi-bari.

Yes! Who knew Moi? had such endowments? The bras and sweatshirts usually hide it well, don't you think?

That reminds me, Chapter 3 of Chicken Stalker is up.

Choke it ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9BQAAT10Mw